The common issue we find is that you can find a fantastic person that solves the role that you need for the next six months. But then the business is growing so quickly that person can get out of growth. You see it quite a lot with the kind of CTO role. A lot of organisations get founded with someone who’s commercially minded and someone who’s really technically minded. And that technically minded person often loves being in the detail of the product. They love programming aspects that create that initial product and all of the development that goes with it. And we see that as they scale, especially when a business goes into seed to Series A stage, and that role becomes much more of a leadership role, all of a sudden they’re no longer doing the bit that they really enjoy. 

What’s up everyone? Welcome to another episode of the Bricks and Bytes podcast, your go-to for all things construction and property tech. Before we kick off today’s episode, we have a super exciting announcement to make. We’re delighted to be announcing our first sponsor, the Built Environment Tech Association, otherwise known as Beta or Beta for all our friends across the ocean. Beta is the UK’s leading built environment and technology networking platform. Their main aim is to connect traditional industry with technology partners as well as connecting construction tech and prop tech companies with advisors, VCs, angel investors, technology partners and contacts at some of the top corporations in the UK, Europe and globally. Current members include the likes of tier one building contractors, some of the biggest construction tech companies, investors and advisors. In addition, Beta hosts a number of networking events where you can meet other like-minded professionals in the built environment tech space. I can personally vouch for the work the guys at Beta do having been to a number of their events and met some awesome people. If you’re a tech company or any other company looking to innovate and step into the technology world and the built world, you cannot miss this opportunity. Visit www.thecontractors.com. www.the-bethe.com. More information will be posted on the short notes of this episode. 

With all of that said, today we welcome George Dobbins, the brains behind Beta. George is the co-founder of executive search firm, Bill Montbeilis, and a true expert in building executive teams across construction and real estate markets. In this episode, we deep dive into how companies can build effective leadership teams, some starting up and building your C-suite and Jordan’s relationship with Dragon’s Den star James Khan. 

If you’re enjoying our podcast, please check us out on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast from. And please leave us a review. This helps us get more amazing guests to give you guys the best and most informative content on technology in the built world. You are listening to Bricks and Bites podcast, where we take you on a journey in construction, technology and business. 

Started. So, George, your current focus is obviously centred around building executive leadership teams in the built environment and now your involvement as a mentor at the venture capitalist firm PiLab. So, can you tell us a little bit about you and how you got to where you are now? 

Pretty short history, but, you know, whilst I was at university, like many graduates, I had no idea really what I wanted to do, but when I applied for university, I was really interested in psychology and business. Loads of jobs, kept having like recruitment jobs coming back to me, probably because they’re the ones that actually get back to you quite quickly. But also search was just like quite an interesting combination of leadership and people and motivations and all of the things I like about psychology, but doing that in a business context. So I had two job offers, one for like an RPO company, which is kind of outsourced recruitment, and another one for an executive search company, and that kind of got me in the door of search. Also, the fact that it was quite heavily commissioned based and they were offering some pretty good commissions was definitely an incentive as a graduate. 

Makes it easier. Yeah, yeah. Especially what you’re working for. So I joined a company called McKenzie’s Cheer, which is where I met my co-founder for Bonewell Bailey. We were living in Leeds at the time. It was quite an interesting place. Worked you pretty hard, learned a lot of skills very quickly, but you realise it’s not somewhere that you’re probably going to spend the whole of your career. And after about six months or so, we were losing work to like a number of top tier companies, but we were like half the price. And we had no idea really why we were losing this work. But you kind of realised that there must be a better way of doing it. So let’s do a few different firms. 

There was another one based in Leeds called Odgers, role there. I got offered a job as a researcher, but I wanted to do more client-facing stuff. So I ended up staying for two years, joined Dodgers as an associate, was a bit more client-facing. And then four years later, I was four years with Dodgers, I went from being an associate to a consultant. Really great time, some amazing people there, great place to kind of learn your craft. But by the time four, four and a half years was coming to an end, I’d also been offered the opportunity to launch Bo-Mont-Bailey. And James and I had always kept in touch. He went to a business called Hoggart Bowers. And we just kind of always wanted to launch a business that had the backing to scale. And so we got this opportunity with Fazel, who’s the CEO for Pi Labs, and he came on as an individual investor alongside James and yeah, haven’t looked back since. 

Nice. So your previous line of work was in construction also, or it was in other industries? No, so I’ve never worked in construction. It just so happens, I think to be honest, when I first joined McKenzie Stewart, they thought, here’s a guy who used to play rugby or still trying to play rugby, he’ll work well in construction. So why don’t we put him into that sector? Really didn’t know anything about it. But yeah, I don’t think I would want to work anywhere else. It’s such a fascinating sector right away from, I’ve worked with the likes of Gatwick Airports, Transport for London, and a lot of international brands. We’ve also done crazy work with Biffa Waste Management, Amey on major contracts that’s managing thousands of roads of infrastructure. And yeah, it’s just such a fascinating sector that people can interact with it, but it really is the basis of everything that happens. So yeah, complete fluke, but definitely wouldn’t take it back. 

Nice. Nice. Sounds good. It’s a great thing when you work for yourself, the flexibility and the control to be able to take it where you want. It’s such a great feeling. And something quite interesting, you mentioned James Cahn, which is his obviously quite a big name in the UK, mainly through Dragons’ Den. 

So how did that relationship come about? Yeah. Well, James does have a couple of different investment vehicles for, for recruitment companies. He has a company called Hamilton Bradshaw and he has another one called Recruitment Entrepreneur, but we got involved with Faisal Butts, who runs a family office, basically. So probably said operates more like that called Spy Adventures. And they’re building out a portfolio of real estate-related businesses. So they also have a couple of different investment management firms. They have a state management business, design business, and a debt financing business. And there’s this opportunity to kind of combine networks and potentially launch a search firm. Faisal knew James, so that’s how we ended up getting involved with James. But yeah, he’s been a really interesting person to be in business with. He’s such a big name, he’s really valuable early on with some of the advice he was giving us, but also the kind of PR machine that it creates. 

So before we go to Pi Labs, can you tell us a bit more about Bo-Mont Bailey? Like, what do exactly you guys do? And yeah, who do you work with? Why would a business like yours exist? What’s the USP? So, Bo-Mont Bailey, yeah, we’re an executive search and leadership advisory business, which means that we work with the C-suite of organisations from high growth start-ups right the way through to multinational organisations. Executive search firms exist as part of the recruitment and also consulting sector. And a lot of organisations need great leadership in order to build their businesses and direct them through major periods of change, growth, and a whole host of different scenarios. Executive search firms have been around for ultimately about 60 years, although I’m sure the origins go way further back to support businesses, get the right leadership, and build the right leadership teams. That’s what we do at Bo-Mont Bailey. We focus primarily on the built environment. Some of our clients are major building material, futuristic organisations, and then through the connection with Pi Labs, initially, we started to do a lot more work in the technology sector. Since then, we’ve worked with the likes of Seblono, with Qflow, more widely the Nemeshek group, a great business called Emerson in the Nordics, OpenSpace. And for those businesses, we’ve done a lot of roles where we’ve been hiring market entry sales roles, whether it’s a kind of head of sales across the UK, Europe, a lot of work into the US. Yeah, we work right across the functional suite, through to multi-hire projects where we’ve previously built out customer success and sales teams for businesses that are scaling. 

And how does it differ from, obviously, Bo-Mont Bailey, initially, you’re focusing with more bigger names like some of the more established companies. And obviously, you’re now with the technology, it’s much more of a start-up focus, let’s say. 

So does it differ much or is it much of the same? And is it a bit more wild? It’s like 20-year-old CEOs and start-ups. Yeah, definitely. I mean, we still work with both sides of the industry. So you would still definitely work with your major international organisations. And we do a lot of work with the high-grade start-ups. Different types of clients. If you take your CEO of a 600 million pound business across Europe, they’re often just looking for someone who they can trust and in six weeks’ time speak to again, and we found them, found them everybody that they need to find. These start-ups, I really like working with them because it’s a much more involved process. You find that everyone is learning at the same time, everyone is really passionate about what they do because they’ve founded it. It’s their idea. It’s like their child. It’s everything that’s great about a start-up. And from a partner side, we’re trusted so much to support those businesses, get the right leaders. So it is a totally different relationship. It’s much more involved. We certainly charge a lot less money with those than we do with the corporates. But it’s just a lot more exciting, a lot more fun. You can really see businesses grow. People make a real impact on the business. That’s really exciting. You can also see emerging technologies and exciting new business models through that, I’m sure, absolutely. Yeah, and a lot of the international clients we have in more corporate settings are also fascinated by the technology that’s coming through and whether they feel it’s going to be disrupting their business, adding to it or, you know, for them personally being like strategic advisors to those businesses that they’re really interested in. And yeah, I will touch on that, I believe you do a little bit of investment yourself as well or in acting some capacity on that front. But I guess having experience with the start-up world and being so closely involved, it also helps with your investment strategy. Yeah, so I don’t do any investing personally, but for us, as part of the growth of Bo-Mont Bailey, we do a lot of work with start-ups where there are opportunities to play a more active role, like offsetting some of the fees that we would charge by replacing it with equity or, you know, actually with organisations that are scaling where we have complete trust in the team that we’re helping shape and build, we kind of want to be hopefully more of a participant in that journey as well from an equity side or from an investment side. 

So it’s not something we’re actively pursuing now, but there are definitely opportunities that have been presented in the past that now that the business is a little bit older and more stable in its own cash flows. It’s definitely something we’re interested in moving forward. Excellent. Okay. So, seeing startups, emerging startups in construction and also working with larger established businesses in construction, I guess what is needed is a bridge between these two environments and areas. So I guess that’s where Beta is coming from, right? Can you tell us a little bit more about Beta? 

Yeah, definitely. It was a bit of a brainchild, probably like two years ago now. So, we have a lot of clients in a C-suite capacity for major international brands who were really interested in tech and what it was doing to reshape their businesses, disrupting them, construction particularly, how it can improve what are some of the industry lows for margins. You’ve got contractors making single low single-digit margins and a lot of them are going, technology is the answer, but I’ve got no idea what “more material” means. And at the same time, a lot of the startup founders that we’re working with were really interested in getting better advice from those types of individuals. It originally started with the founders wanting to be able to sell into national contractors in the UK, but had no idea how. And the CEOs were going, this is how they should be shaping their pitch. So we decided, why not create a network that we can support high growth in construction and in a prop tech environment that connects them with those advisors to really support their growth. So we launched Beta back in around December last year. We’ve got around 35 members now, which has been great. We introduced quite a nominal fee just because what we found was that if there’s no barrier to joining, then some of the advisors’ time got wasted a little bit. There’s an entry fee. And you had to pay for the good food we had last week as well. Yeah, we’d make no money out of it, that’s for sure. So we think it’s just a really, really good opportunity to give back to the ecosystem. And so, you know, if founders’ businesses are growing and we helped them make the right connections, whether for strategic guidance with the CEOs or potentially with clients or possibly with other partners that can help them grow, fantastic. Hopefully, they remember that when they’re recruiting people into their team. 

We’re someone that comes to mind, but it’s certainly no preconceptions that we have to be chosen or anything like that. It’s really, if the ecosystem is doing well, then hopefully we’re doing well as a partner. Are you open to anyone involved in the construction technology space, or are you more picky about who joins? We want everyone to be joining who’s got the right ambitions and the right aims out of the network. That’s to learn and collaborate and participate. We have some guidelines for what’s not acceptable behaviour. And, you know, a lot of people give up their time as advisors for some of the startups, webinars and things like that. So, you know, as long as those relationships don’t start to get abused, then, yeah, we want everyone. But if somebody’s coming in to really, you know, try and do something that’s a little bit annoying, and the rest of the members, I’m sure you can imagine if I’d… and leave it to the imagination. But yeah, I just want to add to my experience of Beta, or Beta. Not sure how you pronounce it, Beta, Beta. You pronounce it right, George. It depends on where you are. If you’re in America, everyone pronounces it Beta. If you’re in the UK, it seems to be more Beta. I’ll just add, if you are in Poland, it’s just better. They do, yes. Very nice. Let’s give it a go. Yeah, well, my experience, yeah. I’ve met some fantastic people at some of the events, and they’re all actually really, really well organised. So anyone listening, care to join or have a check you out. I’d highly recommend that they come along to an event or so and meet some of the cool people we have the privilege of being in the same company in the same room with, so good job on that front. Yeah, it’s good. I need to get free drinks. So I’m free food. Yeah, definitely. Yeah, we had some nice Asian fusion food last week. It was like also was coming out. It’s like one surprise after the other. I heard it was really good; some of our team went over and were like, “I’m only coming when the food’s come out.” I don’t know if that’s fair. Oh, yeah. Okay, so maybe let’s go to my favourite topic, which is investing really. And so you are a mentor in pile-ups. 

What does Pileups do? And as a mentor, what is the one thing or a few things that startups in constructions or founders in construction usually struggle with? Yeah, great question. So yeah, Pileups are one of Europe’s leading VCs for early-stage investments. They typically invest in pre-seed, seed stage. I think over the last couple of years, they’ve started to move more towards seed and Series A. They’ve actually just opened their current cohort of applications. So, for anyone listening, it’s a really great time to be applying. The mentor programme developed, I think, a few years ago. And what Pylabs have is a really strong network into the industry. And we’ve helped support them with that as well. For any of the businesses on the accelerator programme, myself, and there are many other mentors that are involved. We are kind of loosely called upon by some of the startups, depending on what their needs are, to help resolve some of the challenges that they have. And for me, it’s really about connecting them with the industry. So, if they are a business that’s extremely tech-heavy, for example, they’ve got a great solution, but they need it tailoring more towards the language that the industry understands, or maybe getting introductions to key stakeholders, that’s where we’ve been able to come in and support them by maybe introducing them to some of the strategic advisers that we use through BESA as well. So that’s really where we’ve been able to add value as part of the mentor programme for PyLabs. But they’ve got mentors for pretty much every discipline you can think of. And it’s a really fantastic programme they run, and they’ve got a great team there that do amazing things. In terms of what some of the startups struggle with, your other question, Muslim. Yes. So is there any common theme that startups, founders or startups in general struggle with at early stages? Definitely, one of them is getting that right product-market fit, and they can develop some really sophisticated products, and from the industry, we then hear that, yeah, I think this thing does some amazing things, but I don’t really understand what it is. And often, it’s just translating what is a technical message and quite an intellectual message at times about the use of AI and how amazing it can be. Your project director on site doesn’t really care about the backend of what it does. They’re just interested in how does this impact my bottom line. 

And so, I think for construction tech, especially at that pre-seed seed stage, it’s really about being able to translate what can be a really fantastic product and solution into language that the industry understands. And then, from our perspective, where we work a lot with co-founders is scaling their teams and doing so in a way that isn’t just solving the problems of today, but it’s really planning for what the business is going to look like in a year’s time. I think a common issue we find is that you can find a fantastic person that solves the role that you need for the next six months, but then the business is growing so quickly, that person can get outgrown. You see it quite a lot with the kind of people that are working with the business, particularly in CTO roles. A lot of organisations get founded with someone who’s commercially minded and someone who’s really technically minded. And that technically minded person often loves being in the detail of the product. They love programming. They love all of the aspects that create that initial product and all of the development that goes with it. And we see that as they scale, especially when a business goes into kind of seed to Series A stage, and that role becomes much more significant, they’re no longer doing the bit that they really enjoy. And that’s quite a challenging transition for a lot of businesses. It’s taking one of the co-founders and putting someone in above them often, whilst wanting to retain all of that amazing knowledge that they’ve built the product with. So, yeah. And does that happen with founders to CEOs as well? Because obviously, there is a completely, somewhat related, but also very different role found in the business to actually run in when you’ve got like X amount of employees, working underneath you? 100%. Yeah. So we brought a lady called Robin Lansman in, who’s an executive coach and does a huge amount around leadership development with founders, both with some of the beta members, but also in the Beaumont Bailey clients we have. And yeah, if you think about it, if somebody can take a business, found a business, it’s two people or one person on day one, they often, whether there’s VC backing, they go from that, maybe to 10 to 15 people, then suddenly to, you know, 40, 50 people up to 100 people. And that journey sometimes is like six to 12 months. There’s so much personal growth that goes on in that phase that it’s so easy to get way behind the curve. And yeah, we typically see the emotional intelligence having to really develop from founder to CEO. 

That is definitely a big transition. Nice. And I’m interested actually, because Bo Montbeli, you obviously, you guys are not a startup. Your role, obviously, is a right word progressive. You’re not just sticking to what you’re exploring into technology spaces. I can’t remember the name of the lady you just mentioned that came in. It sounds like you’re very forward-thinking and looking into the future as well. I’m interested to see your thought process behind that kind of stuff. Yeah. The thought process behind it, executive search as an industry is quite traditional. There’s a lot that they do incredibly well. Also, there’s been a relatively limited amount of innovation that’s happened in the sector for quite a while [2]. Many of the organisations become partnerships, which somewhat prohibits innovation. And it’s an industry that commercially does do pretty well. So that also is a little bit of a disincentive to innovate. Whereas for us, we really want to challenge the status quo. That’s the kind of mission statement in the business, one of our values, and we want to do that in a client-centric way. So anything that people are suggesting in the business that we feel has got real merits and can improve what we do with clients, we’re really interested in doing it and certainly giving it a go. I think Beats is a great example of that. We had no idea whether that was going to really work and we launched it and six to nine months down the line, Aidan is doing an amazing job of adding a lot of value to people. So those kind of areas we do a lot around, equally, from that investment side, it was potentially taking small equity stakes in organisations that we’re working with. It’s quite an innovative commercial opportunity that many search businesses probably wouldn’t look to. So yeah, we’re always open to ideas and always keen to try things. So when you speak about going from small startup to large business and being in the industry of headhunting, kind of, what sort of mistakes you would see when people are building executive teams. So what mistakes do we see companies making when they’re building their executive teams? Yeah. What’s tough about it? Yeah, I think the biggest thing, definitely, yeah, I think the biggest challenge we see is that people try and solve the problem of today and not necessarily give enough consideration for how that’s going to manifest itself in six, 12 months’ time. I think a lot of people, especially in scaling businesses, you have to solve the problem that you have today, but you just have to be so mindful about how the organisation is going to continue developing. 

Do you think there’s a way around that, George? Is there like a silver bullet, I guess not, but something people maybe do or you advise on? I mean, we do a lot around assessment products. So one of the areas that we do a lot of innovation in, and there’s been a lot of research on, is how assessment is used to build our teams. We use an assessment suite that is able to create a visualisation of a company’s culture, which is really helpful to get the right people in that align with the ambitions for the organisation, but also a lot of those cultural behaviours [3]. If, for example, you’re building out a sales team, there’s often a bit of a counterbalance between competitiveness and collaboration. Salespeople will be really motivated by the commissions and the individual bonuses they can make. In some respects, that’s exactly what you want out of them because the more you can incentivise that and the more motivated by that, fantastic. But the more competition you introduce amongst the sales teams, the less collaborative they’re going to be with each other. So in an organisation, there has to be so much importance placed on creating the right culture, and that comes from the leaders. So for us, it is hiring people who have the right capabilities and the right aptitudes and all of those aspects, but the personality fit with the rest of the team and a cultural alignment is really, really important. That’s where we probably see organisations fall down more so than anywhere else. Yeah, nice. And given the breadth of companies that you’re dealing with, are there any particular trends that you’re noticing at the moment, with like maybe a particular or a certain problem people are trying to solve? Yeah, definitely. Eighteen months ago, from a construction tech side, there was a huge amount with virtual reality capture and digital twins. And that’s still very prevalent. I think if you went to like Digital Construction Week a couple of years ago, there was like build-offs, open space, XYZ. And that was really interesting. And that trend is still there. We’re definitely seeing a lot more around climate change and anything to do with the environmental impacts. That is definitely a key area of interest. There are two that we’ve kind of noticed most clearly. 

Would you say these trends are in the UK, in Europe, or US, or somewhere else, Middle East maybe? Definitely UK, Europe, and the US. US very much so – I mean they have slightly higher margins than the UK, so they’re a little bit more minded on using different types of technology. But I think the majority of construction or proptech businesses want to launch into the US because it’s the largest market and it’s where they get the biggest valuations if they can crack it. So, yeah, we’re definitely seeing a lot in the US around those areas. In terms of B2C coming out from the tech side, yeah, it’s mostly B2B as an area of growth for us. So we’re quite actively looking to bring someone into our technology practice that does more consumer-facing or B2C sides. And then, yeah, with a lot of the larger brands we work with across our industrial practice, particularly, we work with more B2C products, but a lot of B2B that we do. Okay. So from a startup’s point of view, is there less money floating around to allocate to startups at this moment because of the interest rates or some other uncertainties in terms of economics in general, or you don’t see it? Yes, a good question. I think it all depends on the perspective you take on that. When we’re speaking to the VCs, it doesn’t sound as though there’s less money available. It sounds like there is just as much dry powder, as people like to call it, available, but they’re much more selective. I think what we’ve seen is, over the last two years, probably longer, it’s been pretty easy to access funding. A lot of people will have been funded on fairly average ideas that had a bit of traction. They’re not as investable now. What we’re hearing from VCs is that they’re likely to do fewer transactions but of higher value. If you’re about to go through a fundraise, if you’re likely to be able to raise against that. Whereas, if you’re not in that category, it is difficult. I think that is certainly what we’re seeing. So, it’s a very interesting dynamic. 

As I also hear that in these economic downturns, you’ve got much better businesses emerging than in the good times, let’s call it then. Yeah, definitely. I mean, also you can’t lose the fact that, you know, VCs in the current economy, it’s not necessarily a bad time for them because evaluations drop, it means that they can secure similar equity positions with lower funding. And then when the market cycle changes again in 5 to 10 years’ time, then they’re able to exit at a different position [3]. So they definitely have plenty of capital to invest, but it’s been harder to make the gains that the VCs probably are after. I’m pretty sure the best funds over the last 20 years or something originated in the economic recession. So it’s not a bad time to be a VC. I’m sure it’s still challenging, but… Hmm. Could be worse. Yeah. And George, what… And just for you, obviously, you run a… Like Boombayz, you look like from the outside, you guys have had… Like enjoyed some very good success over the years. So is there like a secret recipe or one thing that you do personally or implementing your teams or runners like a company culture that has really driven your growth? It’s definitely not been an easy journey. So when we first set the business up in April 2019, we did not think, we thought it was going to be the day after Brexit. That was the original plan. It was not. You know, there were like three Brexit delays, then Brexit, then a UK election, then a pandemic that all was in the first year. Hey, that sounds kind of easy, but compared to what’s going on now. Yeah, I mean, it’s definitely been a crazy time. I think for us, we’ve made a lot of mistakes along the way. And I think James and I, Amanda as well, who’s our first hire that we kind of see as our core leadership team. But we’re all quite self-reflective. And I think for us, it’s about having the trust in others and building that. I think we’ve got really good camaraderie. We are all ambitious. We all want to do really well. But when things don’t go well, having the ability to see the funny side of certain things, maybe make it a little bit light-hearted where you need to, during what has been a pretty weird last few years. And yeah, we just try to emphasise collaboration and togetherness across the team. That for us has been really crucial. So where we can try to get the whole team together, do fun things, and just try and really reward the successes. 

And something that, to be fair, James, my co-founder, really brought to the business is this kind of focus on, let’s not be overly critical of people. People make mistakes all the time. And yes, you can acknowledge them and yes, you look to build on those and make sure they don’t happen again. But, you know, we really want to focus on successes and build a kind of really positive culture that people enjoy and want to come to work for [1]. Because, yeah, it’s enjoyable. And you can tell, you know, you do notice it, like just talking to some of the events, like you can tell your team, and they’re all having a good time and having a laugh with each other. Like, it does bleed through the organisation. So I’m glad you said that. Yeah, it’s the free drinks. That’s what gets them going. It’s the real reason. That’s the secret. Yeah. I say all these nice things. I just want the free drinks and the free drinks. Well, free drinks and free food is also a culture. Yeah, definitely. 

Okay. Should we move on to off topic? Yeah. So apart from work and family, George, what’s your favourite thing or hobby to do? Where do you allocate your time? You know, I’m a budding amateur football player. We’re not very good. We lost our last game so badly that the team decided to fold afterwards. So I’m currently on the lookout for a new club. That was a tragic moment. My wife and I definitely really love going to restaurants. That’s kind of our thing. So she’s a real foodie. We kind of tour the UK, and like our honeymoon was in San Sebastian just to go to loads of quite cool and quirky restaurants. So yeah, that’s probably where we spend the majority of our money. Any recommendations? UK? Loads. What are you into? Oh, steaks. Steaks, yeah, steaks. Steaks are always a good one. Yeah. I mean, there are just so many. Yeah, I mean, to be fair, we actually, for my birthday, we went to Paris. I mean, it’s not in the UK, so it’s not helpful for you, but we went to this place in Paris, and yeah, that was absolutely amazing. Oh, I can try and find the name of it, but yeah, we just, it was a Thursday afternoon. It was a really sunny day. Over lunch, we just had a bottle of wine and a tomahawk steak between the two of us. And it was pretty good. Yeah. Yeah. There are a lot of things. As a Yorkshireman, I should plug the Yorkshire places. 

So we just went to the Black Swan at Oldstead. That was really, really good. One of the first places I ever worked in a restaurant kitchen, the owner of that is in business with Tommy Banks as well, and like the restaurant Roots in York, which is really good. I think it got voted by The Observer as the best restaurant in the UK [2]. So definitely, Roots. Well, yeah. Check it out. The times in the sustainability as well. They won a Michelin star and a green Michelin star for sustainability. Wow. Nice. Excellent. 

Cool. And apart from football, which sounds like you’re not going to be doing much of in the next week or so while you find a new team. Do you have any other fitness hobbies? Yeah. Yeah. I’m not going to be getting any of them. But yeah, I mean, I used to play a lot of rugby, do that less now because I can’t take the black eyes and broken bones. A bit of tennis here and there. My wife, L, she’s got a Peloton, so I barely go on that, but a little bit. Yeah, just the usual stuff, I think: most of the running, but cycling here and there. So, how’s it going? It’s cool. 

George, so where can people find out more about you and Boonmont Bay, Beta? Yeah, you can definitely go to our website and my LinkedIn. So, yeah, I’m going to go. My whole life is on there. You can definitely do that if you really wanted to. But Beta, yeah, that’s it. Like the-beta.com, it’s got a list of all of our events that are coming up, some of them that we’re seeing, I think, with you guys as well. Excellent. 

Okay, George, thanks for your time. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Bricks and Bytes Podcast. If you are enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. And we’ll catch you in the next episode.