What do you think are the challenges that contractors face when they’re trying to adopt new technology into their existing process? So quite a few challenges, some external, some internal. So it’s again, very diverse, but I’ll start first with too much tech. So there, yeah. Sounds counterintuitive, right? But too much tech. It’s a thing, tech fatigue. So what we’re seeing today is that organizations have their standard systems, their processes. The software is pretty much baked into a standard operating procedure that you have to follow. So there’s already a baseline of tech tools and systems that your teams have to learn.

What is up everyone and thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Bricks and Bytes podcast, your go-to for all things construction and property technology. On today’s episode we have Erin Khan, founder of Erin Kahn Consulting, a specialist consulting firm that advises on technology in the built world. In this episode we discuss effective strategies for implementing technology such as starting small, community building and education and awareness. We then move on to the top things startups can do in order to align their tech solution with what people in construction really want. Enjoying our podcast? Please check us out on Spotify or Apple or wherever you get your podcasts from. And please leave us a review. This helps us get the most amazing guests to give you guys the best and most informative content on technology in the built world. And shout out to our sponsor, Beta.

If you want to connect with some of the biggest players in construction tech world, including tier one building contractors, some of the biggest construction tech companies, investors and advisors, check them out by visiting www.the-beta.com. You are listening to Bricks and Bites podcast, where we take you on a journey in construction, technology, and business. All right, let’s get this episode started. Erin, you recently founded Erin Khan Consulting, which is a consultancy for construction technology. How and why did that happen? Thanks Owen. So founding EKC, I’ll say that for short, was quite the journey and essentially the culmination of my complete career so far in construction and in construction technology. Definitely on my bucket list, things to do with my life while I have time on this earth is to run my own company, whatever that may be at some point, see what it’s like to be my own boss and work for myself. So that was something that had always been in the back of my mind. And especially where I was at the end of 22 with my career, with a lot of things in my personal situation. And with where the industry was, it all pretty much aligned to say, okay, in January, 2023, this is pretty much the prime time to give this a shot. And let’s go ahead and do that. So a couple of factors of one having spent. a big chunk of my professional career just deep diving into one specific area of construction, which is technology, innovation and implementation with the fields.

That I felt I have pretty much seen or done any process workflow, you name it, that kind of touches that area. So I’ve basically been in the space for so long that I’ve seen a lot of what’s out there and what needs to be done to accelerate things more in the industry. And especially having the experience at Suffolk, so amazing team, doing a lot of things in the space that’s really leading the industry, especially in tech and innovation. I wanted to do more than what I could just do at one company. So with the way that EKC is positioned, make products that help workflows in a much, much broader scope than what I was able to do before. So that was a frustration that I had in my previous role, like seeing all these amazing tools come through, which maybe need a tweak or two to be super effective and not being able to help support that directly. Now I can do that. And then also on the flip side, still today, contractors have a big ways to go. So there is a gap with understanding tech and how to bring it into your organization. So for companies where maybe they don’t have a full team or they just don’t have the resources to invest heavily in R&D, I can help support either as like an on-call tech and innovation department, if you will, or just help give a little bit more guidance into their strategy. or the fence, that’s what we say over here. I don’t know, that’s an American thing. Okay, cool. Yeah, sure. Okay. So you mentioned Suffolk Construction and that was prior to your consultancy and which, which sounds like gave you most of the motivation to start EKC.

For these construction companies, I know you, you have primarily experience in Suffolk, but are like construction companies. willing to innovate or will you have some that are of like a same kind of caliber as Suffolk that are like resilient to it? So Suffolk definitely is innovating. I would say there’s a mixed bag out there for sure. So you’ll see, in my opinion, some of the larger companies that may have some more resources to invest in a specific team, specific department, you name it, to stand up some of these. innovation processes, if you will. But yeah, unfortunately, I think there’s a fair amount of organizations that are just getting started with this. So it’s quite the journey and no two companies and for that matter, no two projects really are the same. So each one is on its own unique journey with adopting new systems of work. And that’s something too that makes construction tech so interesting, but also very complex and very challenging. So that, that uniqueness factor at the company organizational level, and then even going down one further to the project level, you start to see all sorts of different levels of tech adoption. Yeah. So how does it, can you speak to that a little bit about how, yeah. like you’ve got a big construction company and obviously there’s people making decisions for the technology at the top. But in fact, the people using this technology, the ones on the field, they might not actually get a say in the buy process, should we say.

So how do you have any thoughts or experience in how companies get around that? Yeah. In my experience, you don’t get around it. If the company doesn’t agree, they’re just going to throw your… tool out that you’ve pushed on them from what I’ve seen. So the most successful tech rollouts will already have strong buy-in awareness, education from the literal boots on the ground and whoever is clicking or tapping, doing the inputs. They will know already and you will already have found strong champions to say, hey, this tool is the greatest thing. It saved me. 10 hours a week and now we definitely should have it on every project. So that way you have that bottom-up support at that grassroots level in parallel with what’s hopefully leadership buy-in to also communicate outwardly to the organization. We also support this change. So if you’re missing that grassroots support, it most likely You might get some good rollout and adoption, but over time, you might see that more or less, the inputs that you expected or your data quality on the system is pretty poor. And it’s because people just aren’t using it. Okay, cool. And one question I have for later, which I’ll ask you is about how we integrate technology into existing workflows, because that seems to be a big blocker. People have their way of doing things and then they don’t want to spend, add another half hour. 30 minute to one hour process, which is great because it uses technology, but it’s actually just very disruptive to the way things are done. So anyway, before we get there, what do you think are the challenges that contractors face when they’re trying to adopt new technology into their existing process? Yeah, absolutely. So quite a few challenges, some external, some internal. So it’s again, very diverse, but I’ll start first with too much tech. So there, yeah. Sounds counterintuitive, right? But yeah, too much tech.

It’s a thing, tech fatigue. So what we’re seeing today is that organizations have their standard systems, their processes, the software is. pretty much baked into a standard operating procedure that you have to follow. So there is already a baseline of tech tools and systems that your teams have to learn. So there’s that. Then we get into every project is a little bit different. You may have some specific tools that are required from your owner, your designer maybe, who knows. That adds another layer of tech tools that you have to now learn. Then you get into just the project itself. Sometimes they have very unique constraints where you do need some extra support in some area and you strategically get another tool or two to help pinpoint those pain areas on that specific project. So now you have a third level of tech implementation. So it’s a lot. And when you say, hey, there’s this process. We also want your project to try this new thing that we’re not 100% sure if it’ll help, but maybe it will because it’s under that innovation umbrella. Then it’s, oh my gosh, we can’t add another thing. So there’s that fourth layer. So it’s got to be really good and simple and easy and effective, like right off the bat to neatly fit into that tech stack and have the team move on it. The some. other challenges in addition to tech fatigue, I’ll pick on just internal alignment. So what I’m seeing more often now, especially like with IT and security and all the concerns with cybersecurity out there, there’s a lot of alignment that needs to happen internally because with any new tool that you bring into your organization, there’s some level of associated risks. sometimes there’s a really big testing process and vetting process and you have to take a lot of time to get internal stakeholders in agreement that, yeah, basically this new thing is worth the risk of testing out because of X, Y, Z, but it can take a lot of time to do that.

So there’s some external pushback from the field, there’s… some internal friction within organizations just to take that risk. And then additionally, if the tool or product, whatever it is, is pretty new to the industry, there’s also a level of just general education and awareness. So that can be perceived as a threat. So maybe I don’t understand what a robot, like a robotics, application is going to do for the project and I’m like, I don’t want it to take my job, maybe it has extra safety concerns, who knows, but maybe there’s a level of education that would help reduce those concerns. Okay, cool. I like you say taking my job. This is like a common thing that comes up a lot. And it’s that seems to me like to be a it comes up, but it seems to me that to be a really old school way of thinking. And maybe a generational thing, because I certainly like the younger or people or people involved in these circles are like, Oh, great. New piece of technology is not going to take my job. How can I use it to enhance my job? Whereas like older, I guess, maybe it’s the education that you said, I’m more like, Oh, he really is going to take my job, but yeah, it’s probably not. How do companies, so with these problems, how do companies tackle? Okay. This may be the answer is obvious here, but how the companies tackle tech fatigue, because obviously the simple answer is use less tech, but that’s obviously quite difficult when, like you say, you have so many people bringing in their solutions. Yes. So I would say at this point, it’s almost an art form to really nail the balance of innovation volume to standardization output. So finding that sweet spot for your organization, I think, is key. where you’re understanding very well what people actually care about and focusing on those things to innovate. If you are pushing out new tools, processes, et cetera, that are in areas that just aren’t affecting the day-to-day lives of mass team members that are building buildings, it’s not gonna go over so well, they’re probably gonna push back. So really nailing the value driver to that specific person in their day, person. So we say people process technology really take that people step first.

I think that’s where I’ve seen the most success with connecting the individual experience to new things and then making that experience a really positive one so that it’s an exciting, good change. There aren’t any super negative feelings about having more tools in your tool stack, in your tech stack. So definitely again, is an art form to find that right balance. But I think that’s where you can be successful. And it comes with experience as well, knowing what works. Yeah, good answer. I don’t really have any fools on that. So moving on to external and internal friction, as you mentioned, and how companies can tackle that. Yeah. Let’s see, I’ll pick on like internal friction. Frequently what I’ve noted in different like general contracting organizations, there will typically be some sort of committee advisory that’s made up of stakeholders from different departments that can very quickly give a go, no go based on just a basic checklist. And With that basic checklist, and pretty basic, it needs to really just hit the essentials of what’s important in terms of risk for the organization. So if you’re going too broad and too detailed from the get-go, you’ll probably never try anything new. So having a simple step, at least to just run a pilot that says, okay, it passes these three to five criteria. well run a pilot on a limited basis and then pending the results of the pilot do that next deep dive. That’s where I think it helps ease the internal processes along a little bit. So making that first approval, if you will, to try something new a little bit easier and limiting the scope. Maybe it’s just one project that’s doing a pilot. stand alone before you scale up. That’s typically one of the easier ways to get that internal alignment and then find what works and grow it from there. And finally, education and awareness is what you also mentioned. Maybe again, maybe you know this answer, maybe not. This piece is probably one of my favorites, honestly. If. you have the capacity, obviously, going out to the job sites, talking with people, walking the project, getting to know their day to day and then saying, oh, have you thought about using this type of tool? Here’s what it does. Here’s what it can do for you. And just having that discussion. That one on one is fantastic for maybe getting somebody who’s on the fence.

I don’t to at least give it a try. Obviously, one-on-one conversations, that takes a lot of time, a lot of resources. So, sinking effort into community building is super, super important. Community building doesn’t always sound like the coolest part of the job, but it’s my personal favorite. So, I have found… it to be super successful. And a lot of times this will naturally come up where you have different SMEs, tech champions that are interested in collaborating and sharing. So just make a platform, a forum for them to meet and talk to each other. It can be that simple. Set up a short call once a month, hey. You guys have been noted as innovators out in the field. Would you like to join this meeting, you know, once a month, whatever the frequency is just to talk about tech and make those connections. So that community building piece is amazing way to get the word out there. And of course you didn’t mention listening to the bricks and bites podcast, but we’ll save that for another day. Okay, cool. So do you, when you’re like advising these companies, is that like a winning formula that you have or like a process that you follow? So for implementing new tech, there are a couple of things that I would say are definitely best practice and I touched on them when we were in the tech adoption piece. But start with one project, find the right people and the right project type to test the technology. And that and it can take a bit of effort. So what you don’t want to do is to put an amazing new technology that has potential to solve a workflow problem that affects 90% of your users into the hands of somebody who is not interested in testing it, right? So that’s very true. Yeah, you need to do some work. Great observation as well. Find that right person who’s going to be just as passionate or even more passionate than you are because it should directly save them or provide them some sort of ROI to their day. So find that person, find the right project, and then don’t forget to track the success. This is where it takes a bit of hand holding to really dive into the details. So you need a fair amount of resources to do this right up front. But once you have that first pilot with the data and assuming it’s a successful case study, it makes it by and large thousands of times easier to scale up to other projects because you can say, oh, tried this tool on this project and it saved them whatever it was. in their day or made the job site safer or whatever the outcome was.

So you have that data, you can back it up. If you need to, again, get internal stakeholders aligned as well, you can say, hey, here’s all this testing stuff, maybe they can either talk to the champion that was using the tool as well. And then it just naturally snowballs to, in my experience, to scale up to other projects. And chances are that champion who’s been testing the tool, like the right person’s been testing the tool, they’ll probably want to take it to their next job if it was super effective. that first go around getting that right and taking the time and the resources to nail down tracking the whole experience is key. Okay, cool. There’s a few things that come after that, but I think that’s probably the central component of scaling new tech in the organization. Okay, yeah, sure. We can get to that. Do you find that… You obviously mentioned, and I really like that point about… making sure that you’re the right person is like taking ownership for a new or exciting piece of technology. Do you find that the industry is very unforgiving if the perfect that being a very good example and yeah, that person uses it and something perhaps doesn’t work the way they want it to work. And then they’re like, screw it. I’m never using that again. And then work goes around quickly. Oh, it’s a waste of time. Don’t do that. Yeah, it absolutely is unforgiving. It’s. So that’s why getting it right from the start is so important. especially in the field, if you’re standing around struggling with a piece of tech, it’s, it looks really bad, right? Productivity is everything. Projects are really complex, like schedule and budget and safety and all of that. You definitely need to be focusing on and there’s a ton of tasks every day for every role that it’s almost too much to keep on top of. spending extra time standing around, struggling with implementing something, it’s not quite the best look, I would say. So yeah, it is really unforgiving. And I think what we forget too is construction is a super risky business, right? So if we have a process that works, we know we follow it, we get the result we need, we’re probably going to tend to stick to that, We introduced some level of risk that we haven’t really thought about or anticipated on how to control it. One thing that I think in an ideal world that we would have is a sandbox, like a true sandbox to test out different tools and you can get a clear picture of what your process change will provide. So we’ll see what those sandboxes look like in the future. That sounds like it might be a thing, like a center somewhere that’s just got these things like a lab basically that’s just replicating a construction site where people can just go in and maybe it’s not, I don’t know, do some research. But also like in the digital space as well.

So Not just like literally out on site, but it and speak like speaking of tech fatigue and like different tech stacks. So if you have a specific tech stack and you introduce a new tool, what does it do to that specific tech stack? So a digital sandbox as well. Uh-huh. Yeah. Nice. I like it. Now we’re getting, I guess, yeah. On, on, and then on the other side. We’re obviously talking from a perspective of incorporating technology within contracting companies but if you’re a startup, you obviously mentioned about finding the right people, finding the champion, tracking and sort of case studies and showing how things work. Is then from the startup side of the fence, do they then make sure that they are pitching to the right person and finding the champions within the companies? and like tracking how their product work, or is it slightly different for them? Let’s see, for startups, it’s all of the above, really. Finding those right people, pitching to the right teams, helping to track the success of their tools. So I would say it’s like a mirror of what you’d be doing internally at a GC. The startup should also be mirroring those activities in a way. It’s. again, also a bit of an art form on the startup side to find the right people. So building relationships is key and also having products that, again, understand the experience of your end user and make it really easy to get started and have it be a seamless experience is paramount. So If you’re taking more than three clicks or more than just a basic setup to get started, it’s going to be a tough go to get that implemented. Yeah, totally agree. Okay. Yeah. And then I mentioned on, I touched upon earlier, disrupting workflows. So do you have any advice on incorporating tech? into existing workflows. Because like I said earlier, to spend another hour just for the sake of implementing a technology just doesn’t make sense to a lot of people.

Yeah. Good implementation or good innovation, innovative products will either augment a workflow or take away from it. So you really should never be adding unless you’re getting a complete new deliverable that’s required in my opinion. So you really need to take a close look and understand what the problem is you’re solving and why you’re solving it. And doing that homework up front essentially will help vet out the ones where it’s not worth spending the extra time. to learn and pull into the organization. So yeah, it really should either be augmenting or completely removing process time. Yeah, sure. Yeah, I can’t think of specific examples in where like you would be adding time, but I guess it’s the perception also from people onsite using these tools where they think it’s just another. Hi, okay. It’s, it might already take three clicks, but it’s still three extra clicks, perhaps that I have to do as opposed to when before the software came around. Yeah. Okay. Let’s move on a little bit then. There’s so many good, unique insights in there. I wish we could dive a little bit deeper, but just conscious of time. Yeah. If you had any key tips for startups looking to build a product in the construction tech industry, this could be like one. or two, maybe three or five, what would they be? Tips specifically. Yeah, like nuggets of wisdom or advice. Ease of use, please. Ease of use. It’s broken my heart quite honestly when I’ve seen really amazing tools that have the potential to revolutionize how we do things. but it’s just too dang hard and then it gets completely thrown out because nobody wants to sit and figure out how to connect this to there or whatever it may be. So ease of use is probably, you know, the top of the list. I just got a question on the back of that. I’ve just had a thought. Ease of use, obviously, okay, so a product could be solving a really good problem. And like they could have done everything, the customer development, they’ve nailed it. But their product is really hard to use. Is that like as important as finding a problem, which is worth solving? Because everyone always bangs on about in the start world, you have to solve problems for people. True. But in like construction where we have unforgiving people and things are done on project by project basis, if your product is really not easy to use, then Do you lose at that point? And should you be emphasizing that as like truly important thing to focus on? Yeah, I think you could, this is maybe a little bit of overreach, but let’s say you invent the wheel, but it’s crazy hard to put wheels on your car. People are gonna say, I don’t wanna put this wheel on my car. Like, why would I do that? I’m gonna stick with, I don’t know, a horse and buggy. If it’s too hard, this does get back to the heartbreak comment earlier. And I’ve seen it where the product, the team, the startup, the solution is perfect. It just gets thrown out the window time and time again because project engineer so-and-so or superintendent so-and-so out in the field.

They don’t have more than two minutes to spare to figure it out. So they toss it aside and then they go about their day back to their old way. Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah. And what was your, maybe two others. Yeah. A couple others. Ease of use integrations, please. So with tech fatigue and the importance of data, and I think we’ve come a bit of a ways in the industry with understanding data a little bit more. Integrations are absolutely key. So nobody really wants to spend a lot of time logging in and out of platforms all day. You want to put your information in one spot. You want it to automatically read back to wherever it needs to go and then trust that the data will flow to where you expect it to and do what you expect. do what it needs to do, right? So if you’re putting, let’s say, daily reports into one system that does daily reports really well, but you actually need it to be stored somewhere else, either just per the project requirement or company standard operating procedure, whatever it may be, you want that to be a one-stop shop. So without integrations, you’re asking your… field teams essentially to do duplicate, triplicate processes. And that just is not a sustainable mode of operation. So integrations I think are absolutely key. Starting to develop those. And then let’s see, some other key tips. So there’s a lot, and I know we don’t have all data to talk about contact. You mentioned it already, Owen, like nailing the problem that you’re trying to solve. Oh, what’s also on the flip side frustrating for me to see is where there’s a really smart startup team. They’ve got an amazing solution, but it doesn’t really solve anything or it doesn’t change very much or impact somebody’s day very much. It does something really cool. Maybe it’s before its time, if you will.

Sometimes I’ve seen that happen. But if you’re not taking pain away, and I truly mean pain, like some of these processes are extremely manual and laborious. So if you’re not taking that away from somebody and you’re adding something that’s. Basically complicating their day. Even if the product is cool and does something that’s pretty unique, like it’s just not worth it. True. And that is true that people in construction don’t really care about buzzwords, like you could have the super cool list technology, but honestly, no one cares if it could be as basic as, I don’t know, the dreaded Excel spreadsheet, if it solves a major problem for these people. Right. You, you’re Erin, you’re a guest, also a guest lecturer at the University of Southern California. Yeah, my album. No, USC. And then UCLA, and that is the University of California in LA. And then KSU, as an Englishman, I didn’t quite get that one. Kinesaw State University in Georgia. And I apologize if I also butchered the name, but that’s what it is. Awesome. What role does academia have in number one, attracting new talent to the industry? Yeah. I get so excited when talking about education and community and how it influences people. So it’s huge. I think going back to my own experiences at USC, some of the most interesting courses were the ones that were hands-on, working with materials, actually understanding. What goes into the building process? So having one, a closer look, and also being to pair that with the latest and greatest stuff that you learn in school really makes certain professions exciting. With attracting new talent, it’s essential for programs to stay updated with the latest and greatest. I’ve seen some really exciting developments with construction management programs or civil engineering programs where they’re starting to pull in tech and innovation into the curriculum. So it’s huge. I think construction especially has this perception about it that it’s just not as cool as some other professions that are out there. But absolutely not the case, I think higher ed and even at the like high school, middle school level, it’s completely influential to show kids like, hey, you can envision yourself in this role. Here’s what you’re going to be doing.

It’s super exciting. And the outcome of it at the end of the day is that you have this legacy of these literal buildings that will be there for years to come. So yeah, sharing that latest and greatest that’s on the market. educating that next generation or whatever, whomever those young bright minds are going to be is essential. Yeah, definitely. And how about ensuring that the curriculum and like syllabus, I’m not sure if they’re words you use in America, but yeah, they are cool. Is correct to ensuring future proofing of these people because maybe I’m jumping ahead a little bit, but to come out of a degree with Okay, like this is obviously factual to come out of a group of just say a structural engineering degree is great. But when you’re like moving into like a world where technology is becoming like part of the day to day, or you could like supplement what you have with coding, you’re obviously going to be at this advantage. Yeah. What’s your thoughts on updating syllabus? Yeah, I think partnering with industry. professionals is key to stay up to date. So this is part of why I love guest lecturing, if you will, because I’m able to bring the most exciting things that I’m seeing back to that curriculum syllabus where it’s baked in as a day throughout the semester, however it’s broken up for that specific university. to say, all right, we’re just going to focus on these specific topics that we haven’t quite seen a lot of just yet, but it’s some of the most groundbreaking stuff. And then I think starting with that industry partnership, it starts to grow into more formal programs. And I’ve seen this particularly at USC as well. where there’s now much, much more formal tracks that you can specifically deep dive into some of these areas of tech. So it’s really starting that partnership, especially with the leaders in higher ed that are rolling out. Let’s see, the new curriculum. Gosh, a lot of it too. I’m very curious. I haven’t quite thought about this just yet. But what new types of education I think might or What am I trying to say here? I’m tripping over my words. New modes of teaching, I think, will emerge. So probably the traditional lecture style, one way of taking in information, may be updated to let’s actually build a project together. Maybe there’s a more hands-on component. And again, some, there are some courses that kind of do this well already, but I think that type of learning might expand a little bit more. Mm hmm. That’s interesting. Yeah. Because I think that maybe it’s a personal bias, but I’ve certainly seen the topic of the way we learn becoming more popular in recent years. Like there was a course on Coursera I think called like learning to learn.

That just blew up. And, and since that it’s like, There’s just all these different modes that you can. utilize when trying to learn perhaps complex subjects or even simple subjects that perhaps people were not so necessarily aware of before. And do you think in construction, tech and entrepreneurship that academia has is more is responsible for other things or have has like a more of a role to play? Definitely. So I think There’s a ton of opportunity with academic partnerships, especially for startups and doing research and developing new tools. I want to say it’s been a little while since I last connected with the program, but like Stanford’s Center for Integrated Facilities Engineering, I believe they have a pretty robust academic partnership that’s possible. alongside big industry leaders. So it can definitely help accelerate some areas of research and really serve as that not like cutting edge, bleeding edge, if you will, of new tech and innovation. Interesting. Okay. And something like moving on swiftly, something that’s caught everyone’s attention right now is like generative AI. Any thoughts? And like the facts will be hard to uncover at this stage, but any like opinions or thoughts on what that means for the industry? Yes. So generative AI. I think one I think there needs to be, again, a bit more education on it, just in general, for the industry to really understand and grasp the potential value here. But it’s absolutely enormous, like the potential impacts to save time especially. It takes what would be many different laborious tasks. all throughout the value chain of AEC really, and reducing it down to where something took maybe weeks to develop, you now have an AI assistant that can spit out a design or whatever it is within a few minutes because it’s learned over time from past models. I think there’s also a level of understanding that we still do. need very much like people, professionals to work alongside that generative AI. So just seeing it as a tool, you still need to understand the ins and outs of what it is that you’re trying to achieve with design intent and how to execute it in the field. So it’s not going to completely take over all the things that we do today. It’s really just an enhancement. And I think that’s where we need to understand how to use some of these tools as quite frankly, a tool and have it supplement workflows and supplement, augment the results that we’re able to achieve on our own. Absolutely. Cool. And in terms of what’s trending right now, is there any other technologies that you’re personally excited about?

I could throw chat GPT out there that whole thing to unpack. But for today, I’ll pick on something that’s maybe not so cool, but ties in a little bit. Anything that’s dealing with knowledge bases, historical databases, capturing industry knowledge, I think is. super essential. So there we have a problem right now in the industry. And most are familiar with this where we have so much tenured, like knowledge just graduating out of the industry. And there’s it’s just getting lost this knowledge of how to build how to execute what actually goes into making a successful projects successful is just Not there anymore. Yeah. So if we can nail down a better way to capture that knowledge, to share it, decentralize it and make it widely accessible. I feel like there are no challenges that we couldn’t overcome together as an industry. Yeah. I like it. L&D. Yeah. This is, it’s often lost for the project teams that complete it and like They just move on to the next project and all that cool stuff is lost. Okay. So yeah, let’s move on to a few fun off-topic questions and something, a personal curiosity of mine, you’re based in LA, right? So how is life in LA? How’s life in LA right now? It’s surprisingly very rainy, very wet, the opposite of what you think of sunny SoCal, which is good. helps with the drought, but no, I love it here in LA. Honestly, I feel like I’m spoiled rotten all the time being close to what is a very diverse city, not just in terms of the people who are here, but also with the buildings and the architecture and just the environment itself. Lot to explore, lot to experience. Nice. And one more, so something that I love talking to people about is like how they manage their workload or work workload. Yeah. Like productivity. Do you have any cool tips, tricks or hacks that you use? Oh, geez. I live and die by my calendar basically. So if it’s not on my calendar, yeah, I probably haven’t carved time out for it. Something that I’ve still been, I would say, mastering, which I’ve been surprised by is understanding my own personal values and letting that guide what I prioritize and where I spend my time. So the challenge that I’ve frequently had is what do I say no to? What do I say yes to? what should be at the top of my list every day. And when I look back on how I’m managing my time more recently, I’m happier, I’m healthier. I think I’m working on things that are more meaningful to me. And being able to nail down what should be a no has been. Really key in that. It’s okay to say no, you can’t say yes to everything. Yeah, it’s a cute one for me. I love that.

And I guess even more so since starting EKC, you probably have more opportunities to say yes to things and it’s elevated that difficulty of potential opportunities, which seem really exciting and you could be like, yeah, I’ll do that. But then that’s going to take you away from like, you just said the value or your personal value, which are guiding you. Yeah. Okay Erin, um, okay. So where can people find out more about you? Yeah. So you can check out my website, Erin con consulting.com, some information on there or connect with me on LinkedIn. So you can search Erin con E R I N K H A N and I should pop up. It shouldn’t be too difficult to find, but yeah, I would always welcome a LinkedIn connection and then feel free to check out my site. Sure. Okay, Erin, we really appreciate time. Thank you. Thank you as well. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Bricks and Bytes Podcast. If you are enjoying the show, please feel free to rate, subscribe, and leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. We really appreciate it, and we’ll catch you in the next episode.